So yesterday, Diep and I went and visited with Lee Maracle at the University of Toronto. Here is a link to some information about her on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Maracle . We did a little reading about her and thought of some questions before we went. I have to admit, I was a little nervous about talking to her, just because of my identity as a white person, because she does seem so extremely anti-establishment and I wondered how that would affect our relationship. Our conversation was both difficult and very rewarding.
I told Diep before we went that I am the type of person who loves unusual opinions. I collect them the way some people might collect unusual artifacts. Lee did not disappoint in this matter. She shared such unique opinions (at least in my experience) and I thought that by in large, they were very well thought out and insightful. I only wish I had recorded the conversation so that I could remember exactly how she put things. We asked her about the aboriginal influences and role in higher education and she said that higher education is entirely of the white, Canadian (or British) dominant culture, and that aboriginal people haven't even had the chance to decide what advanced education looks like for them. She says that there are people now who are getting Ph.D.s in the western system just trying to understand what education would mean for the aboriginal people if they had the luxury of defining it for themselves. She pointed out, though, that in many cases, they aren't allowed to study it in a way that is meaningful for them. Just because of Western ideas about what counts as rigorous scholarly topics, they are forced to study their own traditions in comparison to western traditions, and that defeats the purpose of studying their own traditions--it derails their purpose and causes them to have to define their culture by the dominant culture.
She said that her people have a distinctly different way of looking at science, and that the western way of looking at science fits into the aboriginal way of looking at science. She told a story to illustrate. At one point, her people noticed that crabs that usually never come out of the water were crawling across the sand in the bay area (I'm not sure what bay). They went and asked their elder about it, and she said that the only time these crabs had left the water in the past was during the great flood that happened when volcanoes erupted all along the western coast, so there must be some disturbance in the water. The people asked western scientists to test the water, and the scientists found very high levels of cadmium. The aboriginal elder told the people to plant a special kind of grass around the sound. The western scientists thought that this was a strange solution, but when the people did it, the grass soaked up all the cadmium, and the crabs returned to the see, with many other kinds of wildlife. Lee pointed out that while western science is good at studying small pieces of the puzzle, an aboriginal knowledge base focuses on the big picture and draws on centuries of knowledge about a place.
She made similar observations about western and aboriginal medicine, stating that they are about equal in their effectiveness at treating illness, although in her opinion western medicine is better at diagnosing illnesses. She said that some illnesses have very similar symptoms (tuberculosis, pneumonia, and influenza) but they need to be treated differently. She said that the aboriginal methods for diagnosing illness depend a lot on intuition, and that if the person who is diagnosing you isn't very intuitive, than you won't get a very correct diagnosis, so she tends to go to western doctors to get the diagnosis, but then has the illness treated with aboriginal medicine because it is more honoring of the body and of the environment (no chemicals or heavy metals).
At one point, Diep mentioned mainstream education, and Lee corrected her saying there is no "mainstream." There is a "white male stream" that everyone in the education system has to refer to--one that is not actually controlled by the majority. She also shared her opinions about the fact that she does not believe Canada belongs to the English immigrants at all. That they are squatting on aboriginal land to this day.
I really enjoyed Lee's revolutionary opinions. I really agree with her that the white male perspective shapes all of education and that adding classes regarding aboriginal topics that are taught from a white male perspective is not really making aboriginal people part of the education system. Lee shared many other things with us, but I can't remember them all.
The reason that the conversation was a little challenging was because Lee shut me down pretty hard at the beginning. She talked about teaching her students how to think, and said that they needed to learn not to make "proclamations." They should only speak the truth. I'm not quite sure how she defines proclamations, but apparently almost all of my opinions are proclamations and therefore I did not have the right to express them. It didn't appear to me that her opinions were ever proclamations, though. They were all the truth. After having my ideas jumped on and twisted beyond my recognition a few times, I decided that the best approach to talking to Lee was to just encourage her to expand on her opinions. I really enjoyed listening to her, but I found that I had to be very careful about what I said. It was probably good for me. Diep and I discussed later whether this style of communication was cultural (where elders speak and learners stay silent). It did not fit with Lee's account of aboriginal teaching methods, which are the only truly collaborative student-led learning methods. We decided that we really couldn't know whether that was an individual trait or a reflection of her culture without talking to many other people from her community. It's very important not to make conclusions like that from one conversation.
After we finished talking with Lee, we went to Ryerson University and found the Aboriginal Student Services. It was just kind of a drop in visit, but the woman we met there, Diane Simone, was quite gracious to stop and talk to us a little about their program. She herself was not the director, but a writing teacher for the program. She shared with us some of the services that the center had to offer and invited us back later to attend an informational session that she was hosting for students and interested community members. About halfway through the conversation, I realized that she identified as aboriginal. I mentioned it to Diep later, and she hadn't noticed it at all. That is a somewhat jarring aspect to this trip is that so many people who seem "white" actually end up being of aboriginal descent. Also, we both observed that at first she seemed a little stiff and defensive about our questions, but that she warmed up more towards the end. That just caused me to reflect that these conversations can be difficult to engage in because some many people approach them with ignorance and set prejudices.
We did go back later to the informational meeting and we heard one young woman talk about her experience getting a certificate in the program that was offered. This young woman also didn't look aboriginal to me. She said that she had studied English as an undergraduate, but that in all the classes she had taken, she could never find herself. No one taught her about how her culture and background fit into the what she was learning. She said that when people learned that she was aboriginal, they would ask her to educate them on her background, and she always though, "Where do I start? I'm not paid to teach this. I'm here to learn." She really appreciated the program with its cluster of classes taught by aboriginal teachers. The program was a continuing education certificate program that could be added to a degree. Some of the classes could also be applied toward a degree in social work.
While we were at Ryerson, Diep and I did a little observation. Ryerson is a public university in the heart of downtown Toronto. The layout of the campus is compact and perhaps the most notable landmark (at least from our approach) was the Ryerson Student Learning Centre (see a picture: https://abitmoredetail.wordpress.com/2015/03/31/photo-ryerson-universitys-student-learning-centre/). By contrast, the aboriginal student services office was tucked back on the third floor of a physical education building. There were very few signs and it was difficult to find because of the layout of the building. Diep asked how many aboriginal students attend Ryerson, and Diane said that it was impossible to know because not everyone identifies. She referenced the Residential Schools and the residual shame and distrust that those have left in the hearts of aboriginal people. Yet even the architecture and the choice of location for the aboriginal student services offices suggest that aboriginal issues are still very peripheral to the priorities of the university.
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